Christianity is not ALL about avoiding hell or having a happy afterlife in heaven. In fact, it’s not even MOSTLY about those things. I do not think it is about these things much at all.
The schema (organizing principle) of the Christianity is focused on the life we live here and now. It is focused on the people right in front of us.
It was that way with Jesus. He died and returned from the dead, but he said nothing about heaven or hell, or the afterlife. Rather his focused was on life in the Kingdom of God here and now among the people we call neighbors, family, friends, and even enemies.
My experience in several churches which I have pastored (Baptist, United Church of Christ, and Presbyterian) – and well as hundreds of other churches that I have been connected to in one fashion or another – is that this thing called the Christian FAITH is focused on the hear and now.
My denominational affiliations (The Baptist General Association of Virginia and the Cooperative Baptist Fellowship) do not focus their mission and ministry in any discernible fashion on heaven, hell, or the afterlife – but on the present life, the here and now.
The focus on the Christian faith is NOT about heaven or hell.
It’s about making a positive impact on the world now. It’s about feeding the hungry, clothing the naked, visiting those in nursing homes, caring for those in prisons, etc. It’s about telling people about God’s love, and inviting them to recognize and living response to Divine grace.
The motivation for doing good among Christian people in the church buildings where they gather is not to avoid hell or secure one’s place in heaven. Rather, they are motivated by love, kindness, generosity, and kindness.
These are the people who empty their pockets when a family in the community is burned out in a house-fire and has no place to stay and only the clothing on their backs.
These are the people who empty their pockets to support world hunger collections in their congregations and denominations – much more than those who give outside such “institutions.”
These are the people who volunteer and run the community homeless mission houses (not just as Christmas, but year round).
These are the people who battle prejudice in themselves and others to become more inclusive of folks from other races and ethnic heritages.
These are the people who nurtured people like Martin Luther King, Jr., Mother Teresa, St. Francis, and Pope Francis.
Yes, these folks preach and teach for conversion….but the motivation for preaching the gospel (or the invitation offered to others to believe) is not to sell people fire insurance (or the avoidance of a place called hell), but rather the joy now of experiencing the wonderful blessing of a life transformed by the overwhelming blessing of being liked, loved, accepted, included, and adopted by God the Father, through Jesus the Christ, who came in the power of the Spirit to share with us all God’s redemption of us from the darkness of sin.
I am not foolish enough to think that there are not some out there whose entire religion is based on heaven, hell, or something to do with the afterlife. I know that mentality is out there.
But if you think that is ALL or ever MOST of us, you are mistaken.
And if this has been your experience in a church or two or three…that still does not make it the majority opinion. AND if that has been your experience, I am truly sorry for the crap you’ve experience…but neither all nor most of us are like that.
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Here and Now: Living in the Spirit
by: Henri J. M. Nouwen publisher: The Crossroad Publishing Company, published: 2006-08-01 ASIN: 0824519671 EAN: 9780824519674 sales rank: 79110 price: $7.25 (new), $2.29 (used) |
Not a faint memory, but happening right here and now, spiritual living takes place in the present; the Spirit meets us in the ordinary. These inspirational reflections by Henri Nouwen succeed in convincing us that God’s presence is reliable.
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Oh? Could those charitable things be done WITHOUT religion? And aren’t they? In fact, given the number of people who use religion simply to profit for their own ends (Numerous TV evangelists like Joel Olsteen for example), one would assume that charitable giving is actually INDEPENDENT of religious sourcing.
totally non-responsive to the actual post, Ned…did you even read the blog
If Christianity isn’t about escaping hell, Would you be willing to worship God and attain all of the prizes of a fulfilling Christian life and a sainthood on the level of John the Baptist and Elijah, but do so knowing that you were still going to be sent to be tortured without escape or relief forever and ever?
Can you prove to me that all of the things about Christianity are not auxilliary to the ability to avoid a fate infinitely worse than non-existence?
God finds us guilty of being imperfect, and sentences us to limitless punishment for it. How can you find anything more motivating, without ignoring this fact, and pushing it to the back of your mind?
Hello Mr. Holley,
How ever did you find my blog, much less this particular post? I do no think I have even made a new post since 2017. Do we know each other? Are we connected via social media? Are you on a pastor search committee? 🙂 Sadly, in the divisive world in which we live, I must request you clue me in on how you come to post on my blog.
Now, to your comment(s)
You wrote:
If Christianity isn’t about escaping hell
I actually did not say that. Please take a moment and reread carefully what I actually wrote. I am happy to defend my comments, but not you misquotes.
Would you be willing to worship God and attain all of the prizes of a fulfilling Christian life and a sainthood on the level of John the Baptist and Elijah, but do so knowing that you were still going to be sent to be tortured without escape or relief forever and ever?
Fortunately, that’s not a risk I face. Sainthood is a gift of grace, not a achievement we attain by some sort of religious effort.
Can you prove to me that all of the things about Christianity are not auxilliary to the ability to avoid a fate infinitely worse than non-existence?
Probably not. I suspect, based on the tone of your comments and the way you start out clearly misquoting and misstating what I wrote, that you are unwilling to be convinced. Ultimately, battling it is not my calling or job to convince you as to the truth of the gospel. I said what I meant and meant what I said.
God finds us guilty of being imperfect, and sentences us to limitless punishment for it.
It’s sad that you see humanity that way. Here’s how I see it!
For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them. Ephesians
See what kind of love the Father has given to us, that we should be called children of God; and so we are 1 John
But you are a chosen race, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a people for his own possession, that you may proclaim the excellencies of him who called you out of darkness into his marvelous light. 1 Peter
For I am sure that neither death nor life, nor angels nor rulers, nor things present nor things to come, nor powers, nor height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God in Christ Jesus our Lord. Romans
Do you not know that you are God’s temple and that God’s Spirit dwells in you? 1 Corinthians
And because you are sons, God has sent the Spirit of his Son into our hearts, crying, “Abba! Father!” So you are no longer a slave, but a son, and if a son, then an heir through God. Galathians
I have been crucified with Christ. It is no longer I who live, but Christ who lives in me. And the life I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave himself for me. Galatians
These words reflect who we are and I will plant myself in that picture painted by scripture.
How can you find anything more motivating, without ignoring this fact, and pushing it to the back of your mind?
It’s LOVE that motivates me. Not fear.
…“there is no fear in love. But perfect love drives out fear, because fear has to do with punishment. The one who fears is not made perfect in love” ( 1 John 4:18 ).
It sounds like fear is really central to your theology, especially when reading that last line you wrote. I will plant myself in love and stay there all day, all night, and all my life. That’s where freedom will be found.
I invite you to live into the freedom of grace.
God finds us to be
Hello Mr. Holley,
How ever did you find my blog, much less this particular post? I do no think I have even made a new post since 2017. Do we know each other? Are we connected via social media? Are you on a pastor search committee? 🙂 Sadly, in the divisive world in which we live, I must request you clue me in on how you come to post on my blog.
Now, to your comment(s)
You wrote:
If Christianity isn’t about escaping hell
I actually did not say that. Please take a moment and reread carefully what I actually wrote. I am happy to defend my comments, but not you misquotes.
Would you be willing to worship God and attain all of the prizes of a fulfilling Christian life and a sainthood on the level of John the Baptist and Elijah, but do so knowing that you were still going to be sent to be tortured without escape or relief forever and ever?
Fortunately, that’s not a risk I face. Sainthood is a gift of grace, not a achievement we attain by some sort of religious effort.
Can you prove to me that all of the things about Christianity are not auxilliary to the ability to avoid a fate infinitely worse than non-existence?
Probably not. I suspect, based on the tone of your comments and the way you start out clearly misquoting and misstating what I wrote, that you are unwilling to be convinced. Ultimately, battling it is not my calling or job to convince you as to the truth of the gospel. I said what I meant and meant what I said.
God finds us guilty of being imperfect, and sentences us to limitless punishment for it.
It’s sad that you see humanity that way. Here’s how I see it!
For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them. Ephesians
See what kind of love the Father has given to us, that we should be called children of God; and so we are 1 John
But you are a chosen race, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a people for his own possession, that you may proclaim the excellencies of him who called you out of darkness into his marvelous light. 1 Peter
For I am sure that neither death nor life, nor angels nor rulers, nor things present nor things to come, nor powers, nor height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God in Christ Jesus our Lord. Romans
Do you not know that you are God’s temple and that God’s Spirit dwells in you? 1 Corinthians
And because you are sons, God has sent the Spirit of his Son into our hearts, crying, “Abba! Father!” So you are no longer a slave, but a son, and if a son, then an heir through God. Galathians
I have been crucified with Christ. It is no longer I who live, but Christ who lives in me. And the life I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave himself for me. Galatians
These words reflect who we are and I will plant myself in that picture painted by scripture.
How can you find anything more motivating, without ignoring this fact, and pushing it to the back of your mind?
It’s LOVE that motivates me. Not fear.
…“there is no fear in love. But perfect love drives out fear, because fear has to do with punishment. The one who fears is not made perfect in love” ( 1 John 4:18 ).
It sounds like fear is really central to your theology, especially when reading that last line you wrote. I will plant myself in love and stay there all day, all night, and all my life. That’s where freedom will be found.
I invite you to live into the freedom of grace.
Hello Mr. Holley,
How ever did you find my blog, much less this particular post? I do no think I have even made a new post since 2017. Do we know each other? Are we connected via social media? Are you on a pastor search committee? 🙂 Sadly, in the divisive world in which we live, I must request you clue me in on how you come to post on my blog.
Now, to your comment(s)
You wrote:
If Christianity isn’t about escaping hell
I actually did not say that. Please take a moment and reread carefully what I actually wrote. I am happy to defend my comments, but not you misquotes.
Would you be willing to worship God and attain all of the prizes of a fulfilling Christian life and a sainthood on the level of John the Baptist and Elijah, but do so knowing that you were still going to be sent to be tortured without escape or relief forever and ever?
Fortunately, that’s not a risk I face. Sainthood is a gift of grace, not a achievement we attain by some sort of religious effort.
Can you prove to me that all of the things about Christianity are not auxilliary to the ability to avoid a fate infinitely worse than non-existence?
Probably not. I suspect, based on the tone of your comments and the way you start out clearly misquoting and misstating what I wrote, that you are unwilling to be convinced. Ultimately, battling it is not my calling or job to convince you as to the truth of the gospel. I said what I meant and meant what I said.
God finds us guilty of being imperfect, and sentences us to limitless punishment for it.
It’s sad that you see humanity that way. Here’s how I see it!
For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them. Ephesians
See what kind of love the Father has given to us, that we should be called children of God; and so we are 1 John
But you are a chosen race, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a people for his own possession, that you may proclaim the excellencies of him who called you out of darkness into his marvelous light. 1 Peter
For I am sure that neither death nor life, nor angels nor rulers, nor things present nor things to come, nor powers, nor height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God in Christ Jesus our Lord. Romans
Do you not know that you are God’s temple and that God’s Spirit dwells in you? 1 Corinthians
And because you are sons, God has sent the Spirit of his Son into our hearts, crying, “Abba! Father!” So you are no longer a slave, but a son, and if a son, then an heir through God. Galathians
I have been crucified with Christ. It is no longer I who live, but Christ who lives in me. And the life I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave himself for me. Galatians
These words reflect who we are and I will plant myself in that picture painted by scripture.
How can you find anything more motivating, without ignoring this fact, and pushing it to the back of your mind?
It’s LOVE that motivates me. Not fear.
…“there is no fear in love. But perfect love drives out fear, because fear has to do with punishment. The one who fears is not made perfect in love” ( 1 John 4:18 ).
It sounds like fear is really central to your theology, especially when reading that last line you wrote. I will plant myself in love and stay there all day, all night, and all my life. That’s where freedom will be found.
I invite you to live into the freedom of grace.
Hello Mr. Holley,
How ever did you find my blog, much less this particular post? I do no think I have even made a new post since 2017. Do we know each other? Are we connected via social media? Are you on a pastor search committee? 🙂 Sadly, in the divisive world in which we live, I must request you clue me in on how you come to post on my blog.
Now, to your comment(s)
You wrote:
If Christianity isn’t about escaping hell
I actually did not say that. Please take a moment and reread carefully what I actually wrote. I am happy to defend my comments, but not you misquotes.
Would you be willing to worship God and attain all of the prizes of a fulfilling Christian life and a sainthood on the level of John the Baptist and Elijah, but do so knowing that you were still going to be sent to be tortured without escape or relief forever and ever?
Fortunately, that’s not a risk I face. Sainthood is a gift of grace, not a achievement we attain by some sort of religious effort.
Can you prove to me that all of the things about Christianity are not auxilliary to the ability to avoid a fate infinitely worse than non-existence?
Probably not. I suspect, based on the tone of your comments and the way you start out clearly misquoting and misstating what I wrote, that you are unwilling to be convinced. Ultimately, battling it is not my calling or job to convince you as to the truth of the gospel. I said what I meant and meant what I said.
God finds us guilty of being imperfect, and sentences us to limitless punishment for it.
It’s sad that you see humanity that way. Here’s how I see it!
For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them. Ephesians
See what kind of love the Father has given to us, that we should be called children of God; and so we are 1 John
But you are a chosen race, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a people for his own possession, that you may proclaim the excellencies of him who called you out of darkness into his marvelous light. 1 Peter
For I am sure that neither death nor life, nor angels nor rulers, nor things present nor things to come, nor powers, nor height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God in Christ Jesus our Lord. Romans
Do you not know that you are God’s temple and that God’s Spirit dwells in you? 1 Corinthians
And because you are sons, God has sent the Spirit of his Son into our hearts, crying, “Abba! Father!” So you are no longer a slave, but a son, and if a son, then an heir through God. Galathians
I have been crucified with Christ. It is no longer I who live, but Christ who lives in me. And the life I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave himself for me. Galatians
These words reflect who we are and I will plant myself in that picture painted by scripture.
How can you find anything more motivating, without ignoring this fact, and pushing it to the back of your mind?
It’s LOVE that motivates me. Not fear.
…“there is no fear in love. But perfect love drives out fear, because fear has to do with punishment. The one who fears is not made perfect in love” ( 1 John 4:18 ).
It sounds like fear is really central to your theology, especially when reading that last line you wrote. I will plant myself in love and stay there all day, all night, and all my life. That’s where freedom will be found.
I invite you to live into the freedom of grace.
Hello Mr. Holley,
How ever did you find my blog, much less this particular post? I do no think I have even made a new post since 2017. Do we know each other? Are we connected via social media? Are you on a pastor search committee? 🙂 Sadly, in the divisive world in which we live, I must request you clue me in on how you come to post on my blog.
Now, to your comment(s)
You wrote:
If Christianity isn’t about escaping hell
I actually did not say that. Please take a moment and reread carefully what I actually wrote. I am happy to defend my comments, but not you misquotes.
Would you be willing to worship God and attain all of the prizes of a fulfilling Christian life and a sainthood on the level of John the Baptist and Elijah, but do so knowing that you were still going to be sent to be tortured without escape or relief forever and ever?
Fortunately, that’s not a risk I face. Sainthood is a gift of grace, not a achievement we attain by some sort of religious effort.
Can you prove to me that all of the things about Christianity are not auxilliary to the ability to avoid a fate infinitely worse than non-existence?
Probably not. I suspect, based on the tone of your comments and the way you start out clearly misquoting and misstating what I wrote, that you are unwilling to be convinced. Ultimately, battling it is not my calling or job to convince you as to the truth of the gospel. I said what I meant and meant what I said.
God finds us guilty of being imperfect, and sentences us to limitless punishment for it.
It’s sad that you see humanity that way. Here’s how I see it!
For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them. Ephesians
See what kind of love the Father has given to us, that we should be called children of God; and so we are 1 John
But you are a chosen race, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a people for his own possession, that you may proclaim the excellencies of him who called you out of darkness into his marvelous light. 1 Peter
For I am sure that neither death nor life, nor angels nor rulers, nor things present nor things to come, nor powers, nor height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God in Christ Jesus our Lord. Romans
Do you not know that you are God’s temple and that God’s Spirit dwells in you? 1 Corinthians
And because you are sons, God has sent the Spirit of his Son into our hearts, crying, “Abba! Father!” So you are no longer a slave, but a son, and if a son, then an heir through God. Galathians
I have been crucified with Christ. It is no longer I who live, but Christ who lives in me. And the life I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave himself for me. Galatians
These words reflect who we are and I will plant myself in that picture painted by scripture.
How can you find anything more motivating, without ignoring this fact, and pushing it to the back of your mind?
It’s LOVE that motivates me. Not fear.
…“there is no fear in love. But perfect love drives out fear, because fear has to do with punishment. The one who fears is not made perfect in love” ( 1 John 4:18 ).
It sounds like fear is really central to your theology, especially when reading that last line you wrote. I will plant myself in love and stay there all day, all night, and all my life. That’s where freedom will be found.
I invite you to live into the freedom of grace.
Hello Mr. Holley,
How ever did you find my blog, much less this particular post? I do no think I have even made a new post since 2017. Do we know each other? Are we connected via social media? Are you on a pastor search committee? 🙂 Sadly, in the divisive world in which we live, I must request you clue me in on how you come to post on my blog.
Now, to your comment(s)
You wrote:
If Christianity isn’t about escaping hell
I actually did not say that. Please take a moment and reread carefully what I actually wrote. I am happy to defend my comments, but not you misquotes.
Would you be willing to worship God and attain all of the prizes of a fulfilling Christian life and a sainthood on the level of John the Baptist and Elijah, but do so knowing that you were still going to be sent to be tortured without escape or relief forever and ever?
Fortunately, that’s not a risk I face. Sainthood is a gift of grace, not a achievement we attain by some sort of religious effort.
Can you prove to me that all of the things about Christianity are not auxilliary to the ability to avoid a fate infinitely worse than non-existence?
Probably not. I suspect, based on the tone of your comments and the way you start out clearly misquoting and misstating what I wrote, that you are unwilling to be convinced. Ultimately, battling it is not my calling or job to convince you as to the truth of the gospel. I said what I meant and meant what I said.
God finds us guilty of being imperfect, and sentences us to limitless punishment for it.
It’s sad that you see humanity that way. Here’s how I see it!
For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them. Ephesians
See what kind of love the Father has given to us, that we should be called children of God; and so we are 1 John
But you are a chosen race, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a people for his own possession, that you may proclaim the excellencies of him who called you out of darkness into his marvelous light. 1 Peter
For I am sure that neither death nor life, nor angels nor rulers, nor things present nor things to come, nor powers, nor height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God in Christ Jesus our Lord. Romans
Do you not know that you are God’s temple and that God’s Spirit dwells in you? 1 Corinthians
And because you are sons, God has sent the Spirit of his Son into our hearts, crying, “Abba! Father!” So you are no longer a slave, but a son, and if a son, then an heir through God. Galathians
I have been crucified with Christ. It is no longer I who live, but Christ who lives in me. And the life I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave himself for me. Galatians
These words reflect who we are and I will plant myself in that picture painted by scripture.
How can you find anything more motivating, without ignoring this fact, and pushing it to the back of your mind?
It’s LOVE that motivates me. Not fear.
…“there is no fear in love. But perfect love drives out fear, because fear has to do with punishment. The one who fears is not made perfect in love” ( 1 John 4:18 ).
It sounds like fear is really central to your theology, especially when reading that last line you wrote. I will plant myself in love and stay there all day, all night, and all my life. That’s where freedom will be found.
I invite you to live into the freedom of grace.